The Infidel Cartoons that insult Muslims

     Anyway, after a month, I found that I had been banned from the forum (see image). I am not sure why, but maybe I deserved it. Maybe my attacks were too personal, maybe it was something I said or maybe it was in my profile. I don't know and it really doesn't matter. It was a new experience to be banned or excluded from a non-Muslim site. I am used to being censored and deleted on Muslim blogs and forums, but never had this happened.

     Anyway - perhaps it is for the best. I said what I had to say and it was getting repetitious.

As one Muslim said: "Islam only teaches love"
     The fact is that this 'Cartoon War' is good because the publishing of the 12 drawings brings out into the open fundamental issues that we must resolve - not that I think we can do it. And if it is resolved, there will be another incident a week, or month later. This is not going to end soon or peacefully.

The Mohammad Cartoons that do NOT insult Muslims

Here are the extra three 'Muslim' cartoons - of Muslims, by Muslims and for Muslims, I guess. Let me quote from the Brussels Journal (http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/668)

Meanwhile, the Danish tabloid Extra Bladet got hold of a 43-page report that Danish Muslim leaders and imams, on a tour of the Islamic world, are handing out to their contacts to “explain” how offensive the cartoons are. The report contains 15 pictures instead of 12. The first of the three additional pictures, which are of dismal quality, shows Muhammad as a pedophile deamon [see it here], the second shows the prophet with a pigsnout [here] and the third depicts a praying Muslim being raped by a dog [here]. Apparently, the 12 original pictures were not deemed bad enough to convince other Muslims that Muslims in Denmark are the victims of a campaign of religious hatred. Akhmad Akkari, spokesman of the 21 Danish Muslim organizations which organized the tour, explained that the three drawings had been added to 'give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims.' Akkari claimed he does not know the origin of the three pictures. He said they had been sent anonymously to Danish Muslims. However, when Ekstra Bladet asked if it could talk to these Muslims, Akkari refused to reveal their identity.

     Kaare Quist, a journalist at the Danish daily Ekstra Bladet, has been following the story and the impact of a group of Danish Muslims led by an imam named Ahmed Akkari, have had on the story. Akkari, a fellow imam named Abu Laban and a group went to Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt with their own version of the carttons. Soon ,..
     Quist says the dossier they shared in Egypt may have been far more damaging than the Jyllands-Posten episode -- and it may have further exacerbated misgivings between Denmark and the Arab world. In addition to the now notorious caricatures published by the newspaper which have now spread like wildfire in the blogosphere, it also included patently offensive anti-Muslim images that had been sent to the group by other Muslims living in Denmark. The origins or authenticity of the images haven't been confirmed, but their content was nevertheless damaging. Quist says the dossier included three obscene caricatures -- one showed Muhammad as a pedophile, another as a pig and the last depicted a praying Muslim being raped by a dog.
     'The drawings in Jyllands-Posten were harmless compared to these,' he says...
     But Quist claims the group may also have perpetuated misunderstandings during its trip. The reporter says that Arabs who visited with the group later claimed Akkari's delegation had given them the impression that Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen somehow controlled or owned Jyllands-Posten.      'I believe that this misunderstanding was unintentional,' Quist said, reviewing his research. 'But I also think that they are also trying to profit from the agitation.'

A message to infidels from the "Religion of Peace"

When and if the matter of the drawings is resolved, it will be something else - and there will be more protests and riots. And then it will be something else. For Muslims, it will not end until non-Muslims are slaves or dead.

     NO, the 'misunderstanding' was not unintentional. The fact is that this Muslim group introduced false evidence - a crime - to make their case. Since they could not or would not identify the origin of the three additional cartoons, it is logical that they were included and published by Muslims for the sole purpose of spreading hate and anger. If anyone is hurt, these Imams should be brought to trial and prosecuted. The fact is that, once again, Muslims are dishonest about their religion and their dear leader.
     Islam is a religion of hate and anger; it was that way 1400 years ago, it is that way today. When and if the matter of the drawings is resolved, it will be something else - and there will be more protests and riots. And then it will be something else. It will not end until non-Muslims are slaves or dead - unless we stand up and tell them the things they do not want to hear. The fact is that hate and anger is the only thing that makes Muslims respected, and thy know it.

Disrespect and desecrations that also do not insult Muslims

     While I'm at it, I might as well show the most famous portrayal of Mohammad - it is in an Italian Museum and it presents a view of Dante's Inferno with Mohammed showing his entrails. I really don't quite get the idea of the painting, but my guess is that it might also be considered offensive by Muslims. Just a wild guess!

The instigators behind the violent Mohammed cartoon demonstrations never even saw the drawings
May I quote:

     In a new documentary film, the violent protests in the Middle East over the infamous Mohammed cartoons in 2005 are proven to have been instigated by Islamic leaders who never actually saw the drawings themselves.
     The film suggests the crisis began full-force when the man many consider to be Islam’s most powerful figure, Sheik Yussuf Al-Qaradawi, declared 3 February 2006 as ‘Anger Day’ on his TV programme. A wave of violent protests across the globe unleashing followed in the wake of that transmission.
     Kjær also shows the cartoons to Ali Bakhsi, the Iranian who spearheaded demonstrations in Tehran that led to the burning of the Danish embassy there. Bakhsi laughingly says the drawings look nothing like Mohammed but rather like an Indian Sikh (http://www.cphpost.dk/get/103789.html) .

My 'offended' against your 'offended'

• I am offended by the lack of respect that Muslim have for others
• I am offended by the hate and anger in the Quran against non-Muslims
• I am offended by the respect attributed to Mohammed, a man that according to Islam's own writings (hadiths) was a murderer, torturer, slaver, rapist and wife beater. These things are written by his own followers and admirers. Yes, these are all there - Do your research!
• I am offended that, for Muslims to feel good about their religion, they must restrict my freedom of speech and thought.
• I am offended by the oppression and persecution of other religions in every country where Muslims dominate. I am offended by the severe restrictions against Non-Muslim religious activities in Muslim countries (Are they afraid?)
• I am offended by the hate preached in the mosques and written in Islamic books and pamphlets throughout the Islamic world.
• I am offended by the naked malice in the media of Islamic nations, and their constant portrayal of non-Muslims as demons, including with images far worse then the Danish cartoons.
• I am offended by the treatment of women in Islam and in the Muslim world. I am offended by the fact the so many Muslims consider women and girls second class citizens, denying them educational, political, professional and social rights. I am offended by honor killings, forced marriages, female genital mutilation - all common practices in Islamic societies.
• I am offended by the violence that follows Islam like flies after excrement. I am offended by countless videos of Muslims shouting "Allahu Akbar " as they behead hostages, shoot innocents and bomb civilians. I am offended by the astronomically high crime rates of Muslims immigrants and their propensity to rape and kill.
• I am offended by the lack of morals within the Muslim community, which will protest, threaten and even kill over silly cartoons about a man their own scriptures say was a murderer, torturer, slaver and wife-beater, and not show any indignation relative to the multitudes of evils in Islamic societies.
• I am offended by the fact that Muslim must blame all their problems on others.
• I am offended by the constant lies and distortions that Muslims tell about their religion and societies. I am offended by the constant excuses Muslims make (out of context, bad translations, you don't understand, etc.) to hide the vile nature of the Quran.
• I am offended by the constant affirmations that the behavior of some Muslims, who quote from the Quran and practice acts commanded in the Quran, is "un-Islamic".
• I am offended by the constant denials that terrorism has anything to do with Islam when it enjoys broad support in the Muslim world.
• I am offended when Muslim try to portray Islam as a 'religion of peace' when it is by far the bloodiest, most oppressive and repulsive religion on the planet.
• I am offended by the little value given to human life in Islamic countries, where people are killed and beaten and there is no pity or recompense.
• I am offended by Muslims' need to impose their morality, or better, lack of morality, on others.
• I am offended by the lack of freedom, equality and opportunity in all Islamic societies.

Update!

     MAIDUGURI, Nigeria - Nigerian Muslims protesting caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad attacked Christians and burned churches on Saturday, killing at least 15 people in the deadliest confrontation yet in the whirlwind of Muslim anger over the drawings.
     It was the first major protest to erupt over the issue in Africa's most populous nation. An Associated Press reporter saw mobs of Muslim protesters swarm through the city center with machetes, sticks and iron rods. One group threw a tire around a man, poured gas on him and set him ablaze.
     ...Thousands of rioters burned 15 churches in Maiduguri in a three-hour rampage before troops and police reinforcements restored order, Nigerian police spokesman Haz Iwendi said. Iwendi said security forces arrested dozens of people in the city about 1,000 miles northeast of the capital, Lagos.
     Chima Ezeoke, a Christian Maiduguri resident, said protesters attacked and looted shops owned by minority Christians, most of them with origins in the country's south.
     "Most of the dead were Christians beaten to death on the streets by the rioters," Ezeoke said. Witnesses said three children and a priest were among those killed.

No bad words about Muslims, please!
     This cartoon issue could only be classified as 'silly' if it weren't about freedom of speech and personal liberty. In fact it is just a small part of a much larger problem: Muslims want to silence all criticism of their religion, their prophet and their behavior. Add to this the problem of 'political correctness' and the very real possbility of violence against those who speak out, and what you have is the threat of subjugation by a bunch of thugs and their brutal ideology. I want the freedom to speak out against politicians, preachers, companies and individuals who actions and ideas I do not like. This is not just about Islam and Mohammad, this is about freedom and liberty.
     The thumbnail image (above) shows a report saying that Britain's BBC has pulled a TV documentary about abused girls over fear of offending Muslims (or Asians, as they are called in that country) because it might increase community tension. So, better to continue to abuse girls rather than cause tension from talking about the problem.

MANIFESTO

     After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new totalitarian global threat: Islamism.
     We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values for all.
     The recent events, which occurred after the publication of drawings of Muhammed in European newspapers, have revealed the necessity of the struggle for these universal values. This struggle will not be won by arms, but in the ideological field. It is not a clash of civilisations nor an antagonism of West and East that we are witnessing, but a global struggle that confronts democrats and theocrats.
     Like all totalitarianisms, Islamism is nurtured by fears and frustrations. The hate preachers bet on these feelings in order to form battalions destined to impose a liberticidal and unegalitarian world. But we clearly and firmly state: nothing, not even despair, justifies the choice of obscurantism, totalitarianism and hatred. Islamism is a reactionary ideology which kills equality, freedom and secularism wherever it is present. Its success can only lead to a world of domination: man’s domination of woman, the Islamists’ domination of all the others. To counter this, we must assure universal rights to oppressed or discriminated people.
     We reject « cultural relativism », which consists in accepting that men and women of Muslim culture should be deprived of the right to equality, freedom and secular values in the name of respect for cultures and traditions. We refuse to renounce our critical spirit out of fear of being accused of "Islamophobia", an unfortunate concept which confuses criticism of Islam as a religion with stigmatisation of its believers.
     We plead for the universality of freedom of expression, so that a critical spirit may be exercised on all continents, against all abuses and all dogmas.
     We appeal to democrats and free spirits of all countries that our century should be one of Enlightenment, not of obscurantism.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Chahla Chafiq
Caroline Fourest
Bernard-Henri Lévy
Irshad Manji
Mehdi Mozaffari
Maryam Namazie
Taslima Nasreen
Salman Rushdie
Antoine Sfeir
Philippe Val
Ibn Warraq
(and, if I may)
John Arthur, aka kactuzkid

And who are they? Here is some information about these brave people that are willing to speak up about hate, violence and oppression:

Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Ayaan Hirsi Ali, from somilian origin, is member of Dutch parliement, member of the liberal party VVD. Writter of the film Submission which caused the assasination of Theo Van Gogh by an islamist in november 2004, she lives under police protection.

Chahla Chafiq
Chahla Chafiq, writer from iranian origin, exiled in France is a novelist and an essayist. She’s the author of "Le nouvel homme islamiste , la prison politique en Iran " (2002). She also wrote novels such as "Chemins et brouillard" (2005).

Caroline Fourest
Essayist, editor in chief of Prochoix (a review who defend liberties against dogmatic and integrist ideologies), author of several reference books on « laicité » and fanatism : Tirs Croisés : la laïcité à l’épreuve des intégrismes juif, chrétien et musulman (with Fiammetta Venner), Frère Tariq : discours, stratégie et méthode de Tariq Ramadan, et la Tentation obscurantiste (Grasset, 2005). She receieved the National prize of laicité in 2005.

Bernard-Henri Lévy
French philosoph, born in Algeria, engaged against all the XXth century « ism » (Fascism, antisemitism, totalitarism, terrorism), he is the author of La Barbarie à visage humain, L’Idéologie française, La Pureté dangereuse, and more recently American Vertigo.

Irshad Manji
Irshad Manji is a Fellow at Yale University and the internationally best-selling author of "The Trouble with Islam Today: A Muslim’s Call for Reform in Her Faith" (en francais: "Musulmane Mais Libre"). She speaks out for free expression based on the Koran itself. Née en Ouganda, elle a fui ce pays avec sa famille musulmane d’origine indienne à l’âge de quatre ans et vit maintenant au Canada, où ses émissions et ses livres connaissent un énorme succès.

Mehdi Mozaffari
Mehdi Mozaffari, professor from iranian origin and exiled in Denmark, is the author of several articles and books on islam and islamism such as : Authority in Islam: From Muhammad to Khomeini, Fatwa: Violence and Discourtesy and Glaobalization and Civilizations.

Maryam Namazie
Writer, TV International English producer; Director of the Worker-communist Party of Iran’s International Relations; and 2005 winner of the National Secular Society’s Secularist of the Year award.

Taslima Nasreen
Taslima Nasreen is born in Bangladesh. Doctor, her positions defending women and minorities brought her in trouble with a comittee of integrist called « Destroy Taslima » and to be persecuted as « apostate »

Salman Rushdie
Salman Rushdie is the author of nine novels, including Midnight’s Children, The Satanic Verses and, most recently, Shalimar the Clown. He has received many literary awards, including the Booker Prize, the Whitbread Prize for Best Novel, Germany’s Author of the Year Award, the European Union’s Aristeion Prize, the Budapest Grand Prize for Literature, the Premio Mantova, and the Austrian State Prize for European Literature. He is a Commandeur of the Ordre des Arts et Lettres, an Honorary Professor in the Humanities at M.I.T., and the president of PEN American Center. His books have been translated into over 40 languages.

Philippe Val
Director of publication of Charlie Hebdo (Leftwing french newspaper who have republished the cartoons on the prophet Muhammad by solidarity with the danish citizens targeted by islamists).

Ibn Warraq
Ibn Warraq , author notably of Why I am Not a Muslim ; Leaving Islam : Apostates Speak Out ; and The Origins of the Koran , is at present Research Fellow at a New York Institute conducting philological and historical research into the Origins of Islam and its Holy Book.

Antoine Sfeir
Born in Lebanon, christian, Antoine Sfeir choosed french nationality to live in an universalist and « laïc » (real secular) country. He is the director of Les cahiers de l’Orient and has published several reference books on islamism such as Les réseaux d’Allah (2001) et Liberté, égalité, Islam : la République face au communautarisme (2005).

Ha! I knew it...

The Messenger of Allah said, It is not right that any human being should prostrate to another human being, and if it were right for a human being to prostrate to another human being I would have ordered the women to prostrate to her husband due to the greatness of this right upon her. By Him in whose Hand is my soul, if from his foot to the crown of his head there was a wound pouring forth pus, and she (the wife) came and licked that, then she would (still) not have fulfilled his right.
Footnote: Reported by Ahmad (3/159) and others. Its chain of narration is declared to be good by al-Mundhiree in at-Targheeb wat-Tarheeb (3/75), and it occurs in S[a]heehul Jaami' (no.7250)

Another Update! Remember Imam Abu Laban, the other of the two Islamic 'holy men' responsible for the fake cartoons? In December he appears in a Danish newspaper with this loving message: ‘Your Christmas is perverse’. Laban is a refugee from the Middle East, where he was persecuted for his Moslim Brotherhood connections. Denmark gave him asylum, and this is his way of showing his Islamic spirit of tolerance and brotherly love, as well as his own gratitude to the Danes for their kindness (12/2006).

A Muslim Anti-cartoon Site

1. Punishment of those all who published the offensive cartoon of the last messenger of God, prophet Mohammed (PBUH).
Punishment of those all who publish stories about the so-called 'last messenger' but forget to include many relevant facts about his life. (Note: In the previous statement, does that include the Danish Imams also for their offensive cartoons?)
2. Formal apology of the nations in which this action has been committed and/or the governments that supported the publication of these offensives.
Formal apology by Muslims for all the hate, anger and violence in the Koran, and in the life of their prophet, and in their everyday actions against non-Muslims!
3. Having the western nations to ensure to prevent the similar awkward actions through passing laws and some other necessary ways.
Have Islamic societies pass and enforce laws that protect non-Muslims and give them the same rights (even if limited) that Muslims have!
4. Termination of the occupying of the Islamic countries, quitting and trialing the occupiers as soon as possible.
Termination of Muslims living in non-Islamic countries. Have all Muslim immigrants leave non-Muslim lands. This is, after all, a command in Islam's own sacred books.
5. Termination of all terrorist and destructive actions against Muslims and Islamic identities across the world which is executed by the secret services and intelligent services of the countries which like to begin wars. Governmental terrorism should be stopped.
Termination of all terrorist and destructive actions against non-Muslims everywhere, which are executed by ordinary, everyday Muslims doing their obligation for 'jihad' against infidels (like killing hundreds of school children, beheading young girls, murdering women and captives, etc...)
6. Removal of any discrimination and religion-based restrictions from the European and American Muslim residents which are in conflict with the primary human rights and individual freedom of human beings.
Removal of any discrimination and religion-based restrictions from non-Muslims in Islamic countries!
7. Termination of the poisonous and false propagation about Islam and Muslims, and stopping the process of the distortion of the Islamic principles.
Termination of the hate speech, lies, poisonous and false propagation about non-Muslims, their lives and beliefs. Muslims must also be honest and stop distorting Islamic principles.
8. Elimination of the formal and informal limits for the propagation of Islamic beliefs and providing freedom for Islamic research by all people.
Elimination of the formal and informal limits for the propagation of Christian, Hindu, Buddkist, Jewish beliefs for all people. Oh yes, also allow Mormons and Scientology to established centers in Muslim countries (Hey, these have a lot in common with Islam!). Oh yes, I forgot the Jehovah Witnesses. Sorry! They will probably need to change their name to 'Allah Witnesses' but why should I be the only one to suffer with Jehovah Witnesses (I mean Allah Witnesses) knocking on my front door? It will teach them tolerance and patience, qualities in short supply in Islamic societies. Heck! I forgot the athiests and pagans! Damnit! Consider them included, too!

Update: Now it is a cat that offends

Quote: I wont say it was an innocent cartoon. Cartoonist is well aware of the current world, where islam is the victims. In the western world, ppl are deliberately hurting the Prophet (PUB) in the name of freedom of expression. They are intentionally doing this to prove muslim are intolerant.
Perhaps this reader needs to watch TV or read the newspapers again. Perhaps he should take note of the censorship and repression in Muslims societies reported here at Global Voices. Perhaps he can explain why he thinks “Western World ppl” are making Muslims do what they do.
Muslims are intolerant. Period. It is Muslims that do these things. They are the ones that are attacking and killing. When will Muslims stop blaming others for their problems? In Islam it is always somebody elses fault, never Islam.
About “what prophet(PUB) means to a true muslim” is also a good topic for debate. I suggest that Muslims read their own traditions and see what their dear prophet really did. The traditions are very clear and it is not a nice story. Mohammad did not treat non-Muslims with “dignity and respect” except when it was convenient for him. The life of Islam’s prophet explains much of what we see in Islamic societies today.
Oh yes, about the cartoon. It is something called satire, aimed at the superficial religious attitudes among many Muslims. I doubt that Muslims can understand this simple message.
Also, Islamophobia is a stupid word. It is a term that Muslims love because it places the blame on others (again). It makes it easy for Muslims not to take a hard look at the hate and violence in their religion and the way Muslims treat others. Maybe, just maybe, who knows, quien sabe, what is called islamophhobia is a natual reaction to the hate and violence continually manisfest in Islam. This is the cycle: Muslims preach hate and do bombings. People in West condemn Islam and are suspicious of Muslims. Muslims cry ‘islamophobia’. Repeat cycle.
PS: The future will not be nice and I blame Islam. When Muslims start treating others with dignity and respecting the rights of non-Muslims then things will improve. Probably never.

     Stockholm, Sweden: Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt has invited ambassadors from Muslim countries to talks over a drawing of the Prophet Muhammad in a Swedish newspaper, the government said Thursday.
     Reinfeldt has been trying to prevent an international crisis over the cartoon, which has drawn protests from Swedish Muslim groups and formal complaints from Muslim countries
     The sketch by Swedish artist Lars Vilks showed the prophet's head on a dog's body. It was published in an Aug. 19 editorial in the Nerikes Allehanda newspaper, which criticized Swedish art galleries for refusing to display Vilks' drawings. Nerikes Allehanda is a local newspaper with a circulation of about 67,000
     Islamic law is interpreted to forbid any depiction of the prophet for fear it could lead to idolatry.
     Despite the praise, Sotouhi said the invited Muslim diplomats have agreed on presenting a list of demands to the premier at Friday's meeting.
     The list, which is aimed at seeking a long-term solution of the controversy, includes demands for a law change to protect Muslims against the Prophet Muhammad being violated, he said.
     "We want action, not just empty words," he said.

Thread: I am offended…

See, Young Lady from UAE, if you want to know what is really offensive, consider these things.

Just you’re your edification, let me include a few selected passages about the vile, nefarious life of your dear prophet, taken from your own sacred traditions and with references and links to Islamic sites:

Quote: Mohammed says… "Why is it, O ‘A’isha (his 9 year old wife!) that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain……. ," Muslim 4:2127.

(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.2127)

Quote: Then the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (ie. rocky land). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died…" (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html)

Read verse 261 Yes, they were thieves, but….

Quote: "The women asked, "O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301. (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.301)

Quote : "The military expeditions (Ghazawat, literally raid) in which the Messenger personally participated were twenty-six. Some say there were twenty-seven." Tabari IX:118 "The armies and raiding parties sent by the Messenger of Allah between the time he came to Medina and his death (ten years) was forty-eight." Tabari IX:115. The accounts tell of the plunder and taking slaves, of giving captured women to the Prophet’s men. The writer was especially proud of the raids where the caravans and villages were taken by surprise.

Quote: "And all married women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess (your slaves). It is a decree of Allah for you." (The Koran, Muslim 4:24) Can anybody justify this?

There are dozens of verses that tell of unprovoked attacks, horrible torture (like building a fire on a man’s chest, for example), wife beatings, slavery, rape of married women, disrespect for women, murders for petty reasons (like the killing of Abu Afak, Asma bint Marwan and her 5 children by the prophet's men – do a Google on that!) and so on.. The list goes on and on. And his is the man Muslims consider to be a "great" example! Maybe that explains the problem that Islam is having.

Pathetic, isn’t it?

Kactuz

The Infidel Cartoons that insult Muslims

Why the rage? Why the anger over a few drawings?

If you want hate, then consider the life of the man Mohammed. Read Islam’s own accounts of the deeds of this person. In case you are uninformed, think about the morals of a person that conducted up to 40 raids on unsuspecting caravans and villages; consider the murders and brutal tortures he ordered; ponder the implications of his involvement in slavery and the sexual use of female captives; mull about his discriminatory attitude towards women; meditate on the words of anger and hate directed at infidels; examine the principle of a man who set rules for others, but made special exceptions for himself; and remember the incident of wife-beating recorded in the hadiths - against his favorite wife and child bride no less.

Yes, these are all there, written by Muslims for Muslims. I didn’t make any of this up. And this man is considered the "great" example for all Muslims.

So, how can anybody say that these cartoons show "lack of respect"?

How about a little respect for the innocent victims of the man Muslims so dearly love? How about a little respect for honesty and truth?

Comment by John Arthur — December 15, 2005

Thread: All the previous comments on the drawings from the NPI Blog

See, folks, the above post is not only free speech, it is honesty.

Every word, every line is from the hadiths and the Quran. Yet just saying what Islamic writings say is enough to get you killed in Muslim countries, not to mention threats and worse in the West.

Aashi, is it wrong to tell the truth? Do my words offend you? What I have done is far worse than anything in the cartoons, I think. But it really wasn’t me, I just wrote what Tabari and Bukhari wrote in their early accounts of Islam - and as we know, they are considered the most reliable accounts in the hadiths.

Then Muslims wonder why we infidels don’t understand them.

Should not we infidels be the ones who are offended when it comes to how Muslims portray Mohammud? Which is worse, a cartoon or rape, torture and murder? Think about it.

Kactuz

Comment by John Arthur — December 15, 2005

Thread: All the previous comments on the drawings from the NPI Blog

Thank you Bayan, for your reply. I really don’t think I need Arabic. I speak a couple of languages, but not that one, so I have to settle for multiple translations, mostly by Muslims, used by Muslims. Think about that. Can you indicate a ‘good’ translation?

I accept your challenge and I’ll throw in a few other passages just for fun.

Quote 1: Mohammed says… "Why is it, O ‘A’isha (his 9 year old wife!) that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain……. ," Muslim 4:2127.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.2127

Quote 2: Then the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (ie. rocky land). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died…" http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html. Read verse 261 Yes, they were murderers and thieves, but….

Quote 3: "The military expeditions (Ghazawat, literally raid) in which the Messenger personally participated were twenty-six. Some say there were twenty-seven." Tabari IX:118 "The armies and raiding parties sent by the Messenger of Allah between the time he came to Medina and his death (ten years) was forty-eight." Tabari IX:115

Quote 4: "And all married women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess (your slaves). It is a decree of Allah for you. The Koran, Muslim 4:24.

Quote 5. The women asked, "O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301 http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.301

See, Bayan, here are verses telling of wife beatings, torture, raids, slavery, rape of married women, disrespect for women, and so on.. The list goes on and on. Notice the references and the links to Islamic sites.

Actually I agree with "Ill leave my name out…" that the problem is what Muslim do, not what non-Muslims do that offends Islam. The cartoons, or even the hate and anger in the Quran and Hadiths would not be a problem except for: 1. Muslims are behaving badly around the world, and 2. They will not accept criticism of their religion and prophet. 3. the first two may be linked.

Given the facts about Islam in today’s world and its association with hate, intolerance and terror, and given its passion for the man Mohammud as a ‘great’ example, I think we can all agree that his life and sayings are relevant and should be considered by all. However to do so causes Muslims to have a cow, in the words of Bart Simpson. No, make that "go ballistic and foam at the mouth" - and issue threats and even kill.

I ask, is that fair? The critics are only saying what is written in Islam’s own accounts? Given Islam "image" problem and association with so many problematic topics around the world, is it not right to ask yourself why? why? why? Just saying "the problem is Muslims" and "Islam is perfect" is a waste of time. A deeper analysis is needed, but Muslims refuse to even contemplate the obvious. They are in denial.

You can criticize whoever you want - Jesus, Moises, Abraham, David, my father or mother, Bush, Howard, Buddha, Mother Tereza, bugs bunny - and each and any criticism of these should be evaluated in face of the known facts. Is that not fair?

Bayan, believe me I do not hate you or any Muslim personally. Bad times are coming and unless Islam changes, many innocent people will get hurt. I sincerely believe that Islam and Muslims have a serious problem and cannot deal with it. You may disagree and that is your prerogative.

Think about these things. I apologize for the length of this post. I want to thank this site for standing up for freedom of speech and conscience, particularly as it relates to these cartoons. The UN has no reason to even think about investigating cartoons. How stupid. How pathetic! The absurd aspect of this is that they are really not that offensive, as cartoons go.

John aka kactuz

Comment by John Arthur — December 17, 2005

It is always gratifying to find someone that takes the Hadiths seriously and admires www.islam-qa. It is a favorite site, one that I have spend many hours reading.
Tell me, c_engine, what is your favorite answer from Islam-qa?
Is it the answer to question 377? (You know, we hate puppies).
Or how about Question 482 (Beaten? Be thankful hubby doesn’t hit your face),
And Question 40368 is great also (Love your husband? Is he good? Leave him!),
Don't forget 13807 (hitting female students is ok)
Another favorite is No. 696 (Kill apostates and blasphemers),
Check out also 13737(About slavery/booty) and 13241 (How to treat POWs),
And lets not forget 13363 (Some required practices under Islam!).
One of the best is 70256 (Teach your children to hate non-Muslims and Western culture)
But my favorite answer is to question 23445 (How to behead dolls, practicing for the real thing).
Yes all these can be found at http://islam-qa.com/ or http://63.175.194.25

Just enter the question number where it says ‘search’ and Q#.

See, c-engine, we infidels can also read, unlike your dear prophet.

While we are on the subject, since you respect the hadiths, how do you feel about this:

# Mohammed says... "Why is it, O 'A'isha (his 9 year old wife!) that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain....... ," The Koran, Muslim 4:2127.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.2127

Can you condemn your dear leader for beating his wife?

Oh yes, about the ‘peaceful’ spread of Islam, the only real case was the Far East, particularly Indonesia, everywhere else it was by the sword, in case you don’t know. Have you ever read certain Hindu sites about the brutal 800 year Muslim occupation of India by Muslims? What me to indicate some sites for you to read about it?

So what do Islamic historians say about the peaceful acts of your dear Mohammed….

Quote : "The military expeditions (Ghazawat, literally raid) in which the Messenger personally participated were twenty-six. Some say there were twenty-seven." Tabari IX:118 "The armies and raiding parties sent by the Messenger of Allah between the time he came to Medina and his death (ten years) was forty-eight." Tabari IX:115. The accounts tell of the plunder and taking slaves, of giving captured women to the Prophet’s men. The writers were especially proud of the raids where the caravans and villages were taken by surprise.

C-engine, getting back to the wife-beating incident, tell me that you condemn Mohammed for this. Tell me that it was an evil act. After you answer this, we will talk about torture, murder and slavery by your dear leader, all duly recorded in the hadiths.

Kactuz

Thank you Allah (I never thought I would say that!) for saving me the time and energy needed to answer that asinine response (that there was nothing about hitting women in the Quran)..
Why do you think Muslims do such stupid things? I have seen it again and again. Either they don't know their own scriptures (plural), or they are used to dealing with politically correct fools and are just plain lying. Either way there is no excuse.
I have seen the same thing hundreds of times. A Muslim will say something that is 100% wrong (example: Islam means 'peace' or "the Quran only teaches love") and expect you to smile and accept it. When it comes to the life of their prophet, denial is not even a river, but a 10 mile deep ocean. It is a fact that the many evil deeds performed by Mr Mohammed are not exactly hidden in the writings of Islam. All you have to do is read them and be honest.
Yet time and time again, Muslims will say things that go beyond irrational. They contradict themselves not just in the same paragraph but even in the same sentence. It is unbelievable. Take even the example of Mark, a well-known commentator here, who wrote to me that Mohammed could do nothing about the vile murder of Asma bint Marwan and her 5 children by the prophet's men because (quote) he had no jurisdiction (unquote). He had just conquered the whole region but he had no jurisdiction. You can't make this stuff up. It would be funny if it weren't about human suffering, pain, sorrow and even death.
I have a collection of quotes I call "stupid things my Imam told me" from which I took the stuff about islam-qa above. I think I'm going to start another collection of "unbelievable excuses given my Muslims".
And there was the case yesterday here of a Muslim wanting to prove how peaceful Islam was by quoting a verse saying "Whoever kills one person it is as if he has killed all of mankind." Real nice, except he 'forgot' the first few words of the verse that say "For the children of Israel whoever kills...." Do they think we are stupid, ignorant, or what?
Thank you, Allah, for your contribution to 'Islamic Awareness'.
John K.
PS: Have you ever gotten a Muslim to admit that Mohammed did so many vile, evil deeds? The best I ever got was one thoughtful Muslim at altmuslim.com who told me the passages were "problematic". I guess for the rest of the Islamic world, it doesn't matter that their great example murdered, tortured, took slaves and raped. And they wonder why they have problems. Duhhhhhh...
Do you think our Muslim friend will answer my question about Mo beating Alisha? Don't hold your breath.

Thread: Defense of Allah's Messenger - View and Counterview

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006

Pure? Great? Noble? Rather than wasting time on modern day writers and apologists in general, why not go to the original sources?

Well, then again, maybe not a good idea. The fact is that any reading of the hadiths (traditions) shows that Mohammed was - err - how can I say this nicely --- I can't say it nicely, so I'll tell it like it is. Islam's own sacred writings tell us that Mohammud murdered, tortured, enslaved, raped and even beat at least one of his many wives.

We know from Islamic histories that Mohammed was guilty of countless acts of cruelty: building on a man's chest, many brutal tortures, dozens of unprovoked raids on caravans, enslaving hundreds or maybe thousands, raping captive woman, hundreds of executions, and taking a 9 year old girl to his bed, murdering an old woman who criticized him (Asma Marwan ) and many more. These events are found in accounts written by Mohammed’s own friends and followers. Oh yes, this was the same guy that while making up rules for others, invented special rules only for himself. How cute! And yet, according to Islam "Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (a meeting with) Allah" (al-Ahzaab33:21). Also, the Quran forbids criticism of the prophet and his actions. As if I care…

The first biographers of Muhammad were Ibn Ishaq and al-Tabari, who provide the only authoritative history of his life. Later, Bukhari put together a collection of Hadiths (traditions) which are regarded as being as valid as the Qur’an itself. These three historians provide the only original information we have about Muhammad and early Islam. In 830 AD Ibn Hisham wrote a condensed and censured version, saying "I am omitting things which Ishaq recorded in this book. I have omitted things which are disgraceful to discuss and matters which would distress certain people." Ishaq:691. All modern day biographies are even more abridged and "cleaned up’.

Here are a few samples of events in the life of Mr. Mohammed...

Quote 1: Then the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (ie. rocky land). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died…" (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html)

Read verse 261 Yes, they were thieves and murderers, but….

Quote 2: Mohammed says… "Why is it, O ‘A’isha (his 9 year old wife!) that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain……. ," Muslim 4:2127.

(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.2127)

Quote 3: "The women asked, "O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301. (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.301)

Quote 4: "The military expeditions (Ghazawat, literally raid) in which the Messenger personally participated were twenty-six. Some say there were twenty-seven." Tabari IX:118 "The armies and raiding parties sent by the Messenger of Allah between the time he came to Medina and his death (ten years) was forty-eight." Tabari IX:115. The accounts tell of the plunder and taking slaves, of giving captured women to the Prophet’s men. The writer was especially proud of the raids where the caravans and villages were taken by surprise.

Quote 5: "And all married women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess (your slaves). It is a decree of Allah for you." (The Koran, Muslim 4:24) Can anybody justify this?

Case 6. Safiya, wife of the prophet. A beautiful captive after the Muslims attacked Khaibar, she was traded for 7 slaves from Mohammed. He immediately married the girl. Rape? Well, maybe it wasn't. Maybe women like to jump in bed with the man that had just murdered her husband, brother and father the day before. You figure it out. Bukhari vol. 2:68, and 4:143,280. Also in Abu Dawud vol. 2:2988, Ibn i Majah and al-Tabari vol 39:184

So there you have it. Notice the references and links to Islamic sites and the University of Southern California. These are only a few examples from Islam's own sources. There are dozens more. If you want a better review of the life of Mohammed, I recommend a site called Faithfreedom (http://www.faithfreedom.org) (simply excellent, particularly the debates) and Prophetofdoom (http://www.prophetofdoom.net). Both of these sites have hundreds and even thousands of references to Islam's own documents to support their arguements, many with Internet links. If anybody wants well-known Islamic sites that present the Muslim point of view, I will provide them also, or better, just ask a local Imam. I have no problem with anybody studying all sides of an issue. That is the way it should be.

Saudi, instead of defending your hero against the ridiculing remarks of a Danish newspaper, why don't you defend him against himself and his followers? See, Muslims have no respect for others and their freedoms, so I have no respect for Muslims because they adore a vile man and call him prophet.

Oh yes, what I have said is not insulting, because I have only said what the Quran and hadiths say. Hey, I didn't write these things, I'm old, but not that old.

One last question? In your opinion, which is worse, to make funny cartoons or to murder, torture and rape?

Thread: Defense of Allah's Messenger - View and Counterview

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006

Or maybe the correct translation is "hit me again, I deserve it, I was a naughty girl..."

Does the denial ever end? Have Muslims no shame?

From the excuses we see here so often from Muslims, nothing in the Quran can be translated properly and the rest is out of context. It is obvious that not even Muslims can figure it out. It looks like old Allah chose a pathetically bad language to write his holely (sic) book, and to make matters worse, his faithful cannot even figure out the simple stuff in it, much less the complicated weird things.

However, one thing you have to give to old Mo was that he was coherent. He practiced what he preached. He said that Muslims should beat their wives and he smacked Alisha real hard; he said to kill infidels and he executed them by the hundreds; he told his men they could take married captive women as sex objects and he raped some himself; he said to be harsh towards non-believers and make them suffer and he did exactly that, even brutally tortured some people. See, even if if you don't like the man, you must admit he was consistent.... Now, even so, I really can't understand why this makes him some kind of shining example of purest virtue? In my book, those types of actions make him something else.

Another thing, isn't the fact that old Mohammed had all these special exceptions for himself rather suspicious? I mean, it always seemed that when he came across some rule he had made before that he didn't like later, old Allah would suddenly announce - through Mohammed - a special rule to Mohammed that applied only to Mohammed and benefited only Mohammed. How convenient!

Hummm. Very, very suspicious I say.

Kactuz

Thread: Concept of Eurabia - Islamatization of Europe by Bat Ye'or

There can be no dialogue between Muslims and non-Muslims until both sides are honest and sincere.

I cannot speak for the Islamists, but this infidel demands that any Muslim wanting to talk about our 'issues' recognize the vile, brutal events in the life of their dear prophet and renounce the all the parts of the Quran that either vilify non-Muslims or command Muslims to persecute and kill non-Muslims (And I am talking about very clear passages in their own writings, not my interpretation of them). I think this is a very reasonable demand, and I wont give an inch.

It ain’t gonna happen. So the trouble will continue and grow worse. Muslims are in total denial about the life of Mohammed, a man that was, according to Islam's own traditions, a murderer, rapist, torturer, slaver and a wife-beater. Oh yes, he also kicked puppies. Yes, all of this is in Islam's on sacred writings - the Quran and hadiths - I don't even have to look very hard. Yet to Muslims this man is a "mercy for all mankind" and a great example. Perhaps that explains the terror problem. (Mohammed is a mercy for all mankind like I am God's gift to women. Joke!)

Europe has gone to bed with the devil and must pay the price. It is slowly waking up, trying to figure out what is that pain in its back.

Dewi, thank you for your courage and honesty. Thank you for speaking up for those who have no voice and for those who suffer under Islam.

John

Thread: Why is Islam becoming the scapegoat today?

Tell me, Mohdim, how you can say that Islam's prophet is the "most honorable" person in the world, if Islam's own traditions (Hadiths) tell us that he murdered, tortured, took slaves, gave his followers permission to rape married women and even beat his own favorite child bride?

How do you equate those actions with the word "honor"?

Please tell me, because I sure can't figure it out.

Kactuz

PS: Mohammed also did not like dogs (they are considered 'cursed' and "unclean" in Islamic societies), and he probably even kicked puppies. But, on the other hand, camels are great. Now there is a sweet, cute, clean animal for you!